Introduction

Madison: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Not Just Numbers: Honest Conversations with a Financial Advisor and Lawyer. I am Madison Demora, and I’m here with Mike Garry. Mike is a financial advisor and a CFP practitioner and the founder and the CEO of Yardley Wealth Management. He is also an estate planning lawyer, and his law firm is Yardley Estate Planning. Hey, Mike.

Mike: Hey, Maddie. How are you?

Madison: I’m good. How are you?

Mike: Good. Back to recording on Monday again?

Madison: Yes. Yes. All right, so today we are going to talk about Roth conversions. Are you thinking about converting your traditional IRA to a Roth IRA, but not sure if it’s the right move? In this episode, we’re breaking down everything you need to know about Roth conversions, how they work, their tax implications, and whether they fit into your long-term retirement strategy. We’ll discuss who should consider them, when the timing is right, and how much to convert. If you’re looking to optimize your retirement savings and minimize future taxes, this episode is for you. So, let’s start right in the basics. Mike, what is a Roth IRA and what are the key differences between a Roth IRA and a traditional IRA?

Roth IRA vs. Traditional IRA Basics

Mike: Sure, in a Roth IRA, you don’t get a deduction for your contribution. Everything grows tax free. And then when you take money out, it is tax free to you. A traditional IRA, you get a deduction, you possibly could get an income tax deduction. And then it grows tax free, and then when you take it out, anything you take out is taxable to you. That’s a gross oversimplification of both of those things. But the main thing is on an IRA, you get a deduction for putting money in, but then pay tax when it comes out. The Roth, you don’t get a deduction, but then don’t pay any tax when it comes out. One big difference is, two big differences are for your Roth, you don’t have required minimum distributions like you do for a regular IRA. And when your beneficiaries take it out, they do have required minimum distributions over 10 years, just like an IRA, but it’s tax free to them. So it’s very, very different. For regular IRAs, you need to take required minimum distributions if you’re born in the 50s at 73 and later at 75. In the past, that age was 72, and for 40 years it was 70 and a half. So for a traditional IRA, you have to take money out of it once you reach your required beginning date. And that amount usually starts around 4% of the value of the account. Now, you don’t need to spend it. You know, there are plenty of people who take the money out, have taxes withheld, and then put the rest in their brokerage account to invest, or they live on it and take the money out and spend it. But with Roths, you don’t have those required minimum distributions because, like, the government’s not going to get any money on taxes. So why make you take it out? Right.

What is a Roth IRA Conversion?

Madison: So what is a Roth IRA conversion and how does it work?

Mike: Sure, so you can now convert money from your traditional IRA, pay tax on it, and then put the money into a Roth IRA. And so say, for example, you have $50,000 in an IRA and you think that it makes sense to have a Roth. So you convert, you need to figure out how much to pay in tax because it’ll be a taxable event. You pay that amount in tax and then you put the money into your Roth IRA and then it grows tax free after that.

Why and Who Should Consider a Conversion?

Madison: Okay, so why should someone do a conversion and who should consider them and who shouldn’t?

Mike: Okay, well, one of the things is you need to pay the tax, right? And so it really doesn’t make sense to pay the tax from the amount that you’re converting, right? So you don’t want to take money from your IRA for the conversion and then more money for the tax because then that money that you’re taking after the tax will be taxable, right? So you shouldn’t do a Roth conversion unless you have the money to pay the taxes, right, from cash from somewhere outside of that account. You also might not consider a Roth conversion if you have a large, if your money is largely going to charity because that charity is not going to pay tax. So it doesn’t make sense for you to pay tax and then the charity gets it without tax. But for others, it’s something to consider either for most people, either in a low income year, like say you lose your job or you’re between jobs or you’ve recently retired and your income is going to be lower, it might make sense to take a look to see whether it makes sense to do a Roth conversion. Now, like part of the calculation is, does it make sense for you to do it? You know, even if you’re in a low tax year. So, and what is a low tax year for some people is a high tax year for other people, right? And so, you know, the old advice was always, well, if you’re going to pay higher taxes in retirement than you’re paying now, then, or the same, it might make sense to convert. And that probably makes sense. A lot of accountants will say it makes sense to convert enough to fill either your 22% marginal income tax bracket or, or even your 24% marginal income tax bracket. So whatever income you are at, and you know, it would be amount to bring it up to that marginal tax bracket, which could be a small amount or a large amount, depending on how far you are from that bracket. But I don’t know if– I think that that advice is more or less for high earners. Like, if you’re not a real high earner, you might not ever pay in the 22% bracket. So it wouldn’t make sense to pay all that tax now for something that you’re not going to meet in the future. So I think what you have to– the realistic way to look at it is, look at your sources of income now. Look at your sources of income in retirement, see how they line up, and then see if it makes sense to do that conversion because it will reduce your overall taxes during your lifetime. There’s one thing that people do sometimes that it’s not necessarily make sense for them, but sometimes they’ll do Roth conversions because their children are in a higher bracket. Beneficiaries who are not spouses can no longer stretch out their required minimum distributions over their anticipated lifetime. They have to take it out more or less within 10 years of when the person with the IRA dies. And so if you are retired and you’re not in a high tax bracket and you’re taking out your IRA and everything seems fine, but you have a child who is in the highest bracket and looks like they’re always going to be in the highest bracket, well, maybe it might make sense to save money for your child by you converting and paying some taxes. I don’t know if that’s something I would do, but we’ve had people talk about that, and they do that. We also have a client who long time ago did Roth conversions as a gift for his child. It’s like, I’ll pay the tax on it, so when my daughter gets the money, it’s tax free to her, you know, and he did those conversions a long time ago, and that money’s a lot more than it was then, so it’ll probably be worthwhile. I’m sure his daughter will really appreciate it.

Madison: Yeah, yeah, I’m sure. I’m sure.

When Should You Convert?

Madison: So when should you convert them?

Mike: I think for most people, it winds up being, like, in your 60s. So there are other situations where it’s– where it might make sense, like, again, if you lose your job or you go through an extended period of unemployment and your income is really low one year, it might make sense, but ordinarily it’s something to do as you get close to actually retiring and being in retirement. And then, you know, after 70, it probably makes less sense for people because by then you’ll be taking your Social Security. If you’re married, your spouse might be taking her Social Security. Your required minimum distributions are coming up really soon. So it starts to make less sense once you turn 70.

How Much Should You Convert?

Madison: Okay, how much should you convert?

Mike: It depends on, like, the, the balance in your accounts and, like, the taxability. Right. So, you know, when we talked earlier about going up to, like, the 22% bracket or the 24% bracket, you know, like, that might be the limit for you. Like, I wouldn’t say convert everything and pay 37% tax on the last million dollars of it. Like, that wouldn’t make sense. But it really comes down to not increasing your current taxes so much that the Roth can’t make sense for you. It’s a really hard thing to answer without, like, looking at somebody’s situation. So what I’d say is, you know, if you’re thinking about it and it’s a normal tax year for you, unless you are in a pretty low tax bracket and you think taxes are going to be much higher in retirement, there’s a good chance it doesn’t make sense. But if you are retired and you’re not taking a lot of money from your IRAs, then it often does seem to make sense. And so what I’d say is look at what your taxes were last year. Make an estimate on how much you’ll pay this year. Google what the 22% marginal income tax bracket is for your filing status, whether you’re single or married, and see what that income is and take a look if that makes sense for you. And will you have enough money to pay the anticipated taxes? Right. And so that’s often a thing like, well, maybe you want to convert more, but you really only have enough money to convert a smaller amount because you need to have the money available to pay the taxes in cash, like in a checking or savings account, not in an IRA.

Tax Implications of Converting

Madison: What are the tax implications of converting to a Roth IRA?

Mike: Sure, you pay current tax now, like the year you convert on the Roth. And then on those amounts that you convert, you won’t pay tax in the future, and your beneficiaries won’t pay tax in the future.

Madison: Okay, awesome.

Introduction to Tim and Suzanne from T. Foster & Co.

Madison: We’re thrilled to have Tim and Suzanne Foster, the dynamic husband-and-wife duo behind T. Foster & Co., a fine jewelry company known for their exquisite designs and commitment to quality craftsmanship. With Tim’s extensive background in jewelry design, including mentorship under a famed Van Cleef and Arpels designer, and Suzanne’s expertise in revolutionizing production and manufacturing processes, they have built a brand celebrated for classical designs with a modern flair. Tim and Suzanne, welcome to Not Just Numbers!

Tim: Thank you. Thank you for having us.

Suzanne: Thank you. Good to be here. It’s great.

Mike: Yeah. It’s great to meet you guys. Thanks for coming on board.

Founding Story of T. Foster & Co.

Madison: All right, so can you share the story of how T. Foster and Co was founded and how you both came together as a husband-and-wife team?

Tim: So we started our business in 1982. So that’s a lot of years ago. We’re not counting all those years. And we started here in Yardley Borough. I had a background in jewelry already since I was about 14, and kind of built that business, starting it on my own when I was 25. A couple years later, Suzanne came and joined with me. And together we’ve been working for more than 40 years together. And the thing about us is that we always envisioned our product as a brand. So we’re not typical jewelry store in the sense where we’re buying a manufactured product and then just retailing it. We’re actually, we’re designing it, we’re manufacturing it and we’re retailing it, which is quite a difficult task. But it’s what we’ve always known in terms of the jewelry business and how to be unique in the field of many, many really excellent jewelers that are out there. And that enables us to control quality and pricing and design at a very high level. And we have a great reputation over all these years of serving many, many local families. A little bit of a national audience. Not gigantic, but there is some. And we just try to be progressive and move our business ahead constantly with new technology. I also have a lot of background in evaluation, and I know this is a financial site that we’re doing here. It’s kind of a financial background. And I just want to point out we may talk a little bit about the valuation side. I have a lot of credentials in terms of appraising work, which I’ve done. And in the early years, in the 80s, appraising was very important for us because our business was smaller. So services were part of what we were doing. So we can speak to that a little bit today in terms of how jewelry is valued, whether jewelry is a great investment, all the things that might interest your listeners in particular. So. Give Suzanne a chance to say a few things.

Suzanne: Well, just about how we came together as a team. We met our freshman year in college and pretty much were a couple since then. We did two amazing things in 1982. That was the year we got married. It was the year we opened our business. I did have a position at a bank that I was working at for several years until we could sort of get things going and get on our feet. And when I was able to quit that and join this business, I don’t think I ever looked back. It’s been a fascinating business. Our clientele is amazing. The product is amazing. We have a lot of fun with what we do because we are the designers, and I am the person who’s the techie. I’m the person who works with our team of jewelers to get the fabrication completed. And so it’s been a really rewarding and wonderful experience and working with the best person on the planet, so that helps.

Mike: Aw, that’s great hear.

Tim: Yeah. That’s why we’re continuing to do it well into our sixth decade, and we just. We just love what we do, so.

Influence of Van Cleef and Arpels Designer

Madison: Tim, you’ve worked with renowned Van Cleef and Arpels designer. How has that experience shaped your approach to jewelry design?

Tim: Well, jewelry design, like anything like clothing design or even architectural design, all these things, they constantly morph and change. So when you first start out, you might learn the basics, the fundamentals of, for example, drawing. So I tend to draw a lot of our designs. And when I work with the GIA, which had a wonderful program, it was in New York City, it was a five month program and it had a retired designer from Van Cleef and Arpels, which was an amazing man who taught us how to find balance in design and also taught us how to draw, which was really important back in the 80s. Now today we’re really making a lot more things by CAD and computer. So things have really kind of evolved. But when you talk about design, we, we need to design things that are going to appeal to people and we believe that things that are comfortable, things that are worthy of wearing every single day, that are not ridiculously over dressy, these are things that meet the marketplace today. So we’re always studying design and always studying the ways that we can be more appropriate to the marketplace. And so it’s really, it’s an ongoing learning process, no question about that. And we learn about it all the time, you know, so, so that was kind of just the beginnings of my background in design, so. And it’s nice to be in a room full of other students that are going down the same path because you share that camaraderie, you know.

Mike: Sure.

Tim: Yeah, it’s exciting.

Mike: Sure. Very cool. Thank you.

Suzanne: To add to studying with this designer really helped Tim with his artistic skills. We’re rendering pieces of jewelry that people could look at a drawing and say, yes, please make me this. I think in today’s world, we are so inspired by the individual gemstones that we source and purchase. And that really gives us a lot of inspiration so that we bring out the beauty of the stone that we’ve purchased and make something that’s really enhances all of its attributes. So it’s a big, I think, motivation for us now and big guideline for us now.

Gemstone Sourcing Process

Tim: Many, many people ask us, where does design start? And for us, a lot, in a lot of ways, it starts with the purchase of gemstones. So we do a lot of traveling, world traveling, so we can source really high quality colored gemstones, mostly, which is one of our specialties. And people love the expression that I use, which is when we’re searching for quality gemstones, we say it’s like a needle in a haystack, because what’s in the marketplace is 98% something we cannot use. That’s not pretty, that’s. That’s more mainstream or more budgety. So what we are looking for, it takes a lot of effort. So it might be one gemstone in 10,000 that we actually would consider buying. So. So it’s like finding that needle in a haystack. Together we’ve been very good at that. And we have to go to Europe, we have to go to other shows that are really important today, and just look at all this product that’s coming out of the earth every single year. It’s very exciting. What’s new in rubies, what’s new in emeralds, what’s new in other colored stones? And it’s always changing, and it’s incredible. And this plays into valuation, too, because the only way you can possibly appraise this product that is known as fine jewelry is to know what the marketplace is doing constantly. With stocks and bonds. Right. You can pull it up on your computer. That’s great. But with, like, the emerald market, you better know what’s coming out of the ground this year and what it looks like and how much they’re charging per carat. Because you have to factor that in. Because when I write an appraisal for valuation, it’s okay. You’re insuring this piece. If you lose it, we have to remake it. What’s it going to cost to remake the same thing? That’s a target that you have to try to meet.

Suzanne: And it’s very specific knowledge.

Tim: So all this travel to further our designs and buy our product also plays into the valuation side of our business. And I have a lot of credential for that in our industry because it’s not, it’s not an easy thing to do. So.

Mike: Such a great stock market analogy. Thanks for that. Stock market, right. There’s a few thousand stocks that publicly trade and there’s millions of people every day buying and selling them. So it’s really easy to know what. Now, the, the price might change by a couple percent in a, in a week or a month or something, but it’s pretty, you know, what the price is. Whereas, like, stuff comes out of the earth every year and there’s– I would say there’s probably way more gemstones every year than there are publicly traded companies. And so you need to travel. Did you say you go to trade shows?

Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they could be all over, all over the world. We don’t, we don’t source things at mining sites. That’s kind of a different world. By what’s called polished, which are goods that have already primarily been cut. That doesn’t mean that we don’t recut them to make them more beautiful, which we often do, but we wouldn’t venture into buying a rough piece of gemstone.

Mike: Okay. In this needle in a haystack. It’s really.. This is fascinating to me. Like, I don’t know anything about this. Right. Are there certain, like, shows or dealers that you’ve worked with in the past, where you, you know the kind of product that they’re going to have? Or it’s like every year or month, like, oh, well, this is happening in Paris, so we have to go here. Like, how do you figure that out? How do you know what you need and then go and try to source it?

Suzanne: That’s a good question. So we typically go to two trade shows a year because we have to time this so that when we buy our loose material, we have time to come up with our designs and fabricate it and put it in our store for certain holidays. So we go to two. One is in Arizona in Tucson, and the other one was in Basel, Switzerland. It’s now moved to Geneva. Totally different types of dealers, but dealers from all over the world come to each of these shows. So we’ve been in business a long time. We have suppliers that we will, that we will stop by and visit every year, but we don’t necessarily buy from them every year because their inventory is constantly changing. So we’re meeting new people all the time. So the arena is a showcase with all these beautiful gemstones laid out and there’s one after another. And so we’ll just walk around until something just catches our eye. And so we will visit our regular suppliers. Sometimes things catch our eye, but we’re always finding new suppliers and new people to work with.

Mike: Okay, and what, what kind of scale is this? Are you looking for, I don’t know, 10 gems a year or like a thousand? Like how, how hard is this process?

Tim: Well, one thing, that one thing is about sourcing what we want and then the other thing is about negotiations in terms of price. So stocks and bonds, where there’s not a whole lot of negotiation for the market price, you know, it could be a $25,000 Ruby that we say, well, you know, it’s perfect for us, but it’s only perfect for us at 15,000. So at one show we may be able to spend quite a bit of money. We have been to shows where we’re unable to buy very little.

Industry Challenges Post-COVID

Tim: That leads me to where we are right now. Our industry is in an incredibly difficult position because following Covid, the years of COVID mining sites have shut down. There’s been less material on the market. What is on the market has been priced up and up and up. It’s been a very, very difficult market to buy in right now. It’s the hardest market I’ve ever seen in my entire career. There’s no question. It does showing some signs of getting a little bit better. But it’s, it’s just that the supply line has been so dramatically changed. So we go to some of these shows and everything’s ridiculously priced and there’s no negotiation because there’s not a follow up of material coming into, into the pipeline. That’s a real problem. So, I could talk about that subject for 10 minutes and I’m not going to. But I mean it’s, it’s difficulty we’re seeing in the industry. Yeah.

Mike: So, one of the purposes of this podcast, right, is for us to talk with local, mostly Yardley business owners so they can tell a little bit about their story. I love this town. We moved to 20 years ago and want to help promote. And you have an, an issue there, right. That has nothing to do with like Tim and Suzanne, that is a giant issue for your industry that you have to try to deal with, you know, and pivot. Yeah, and a lot of people probably don’t know that you’re dealing with that. I mean, people might understand when you say, oh, there have been some effects, you know, since COVID but like if you go to places and the inventory is much more limited than it had been and the prices are way higher, that has a, I would have to think, a gigantic impact on your business. You know, even after 40 years of running a great business, you still have things to confront with in the world. It’s hard.

Suzanne: So the benefit of being a small business in town and being in business for so many years is that of course over the years we’ve accumulated a vast amount of fabulous jewelry that’s here in our store we have bought over the years. So all of those are extremely reasonably priced because from the old market and we don’t mark things up to go with increase in price. So we have the ability right now when things are a little bit elevated because of this still backlog from COVID to, to be very selective in our buying, buy things that are value. But we have all the things in our inventory right now to fall back on reasonably priced. So we can wait this period out and wait prices stabilize or drop. And so we’re in a really advantageous position that I think really suits the town and suits our small business.

Mike: Very good.

Revolutionizing Production and Manufacturing

Madison: Suzanne, how have you revolutionized the production and manufacturing process for T. Foster & Co. over the years?

Suzanne: You know, that’s a very technical question. So I am the techie. I’m also. I have some creativity, you know, so I do a lot of the design work as well. But I’m the one who works with all my jewelers. And over the years, the way that jewelry has been manufactured has changed pretty dramatically. And so me and my jewelers are keeping ahead of those trends. For example, we used to hand carve waxes, and they were beautiful, but maybe not always symmetrical.

Tim: A wax is a model where many pieces of jewelry start it’s a carved piece of wax.

Suzanne: A carved piece of wax, and it goes through the casting process. So now we generate our designs through the cad, and they’re much more symmetrical. They can be more delicate and more interesting in the design because you’re using computer modeling. So that’s one of the ways many, many parts of the jewelry industry, though, it’s hand work. So where I feel like I’ve been revolutionary for us is to find the very best craftsmen who are doing this amazing handwork, because that’s one of those dying arts. You know, as things progress, you know, there’s very few watchmakers now because everything’s, you know, digital. And so as things change, it’s important to always keep ahead of who is really the best in their field and sourcing out those craftsmen that are doing our fabrication for us.

Tim: And that’s another challenge because that’s always evolving.

Mike: Right. Because if there are less and less of them over time, that doesn’t make it easier for you.

Tim: Oh, it doesn’t no.

Suzanne: Yeah. But we have. We have some really fabulous fabricators and jewelers for us, real craftsmen that work with us right now.

Tim: Oh, yeah, that’s the key. That’s our key. So. And that helps us bring a really quality product. What we would say is a very reasonable price for the level of quality that we’re offering in terms of the marketplace, and that’s also what we strive for, is really excellent value.

Inspiration for Current Collection

Madison: All right. What inspires your current collection, and how do you balance classical design with a modern flair?

Tim: Well, first off, I think that the more classical design is the type of jewelry that people will wear every day. And the thing that we hear from our clients most in the last, I would say 10 to 15 years is that I want a piece of jewelry that I can wear every day. That’s, that I can wear playing tennis and I can wear going out to dinner. I don’t have to be at a ball or a black tie event to wear those kinds of pieces of jewelry. So I think that we have to balance cutting edge design with that classic feel. So we, we constantly kind of tweak that and play with that, and we, we generally get it pretty right. But if we don’t make a product that is appealing to the marketplace, then we really wouldn’t have much of a business. So very important to refine that.

Jennie: Also just to note too, they, we source out, well, Suzanne sources out all the parts too, that go together and make these pieces, the wearability part of it, they’re lightweight, they feel good on you. Suzanne’s really good at knowing what to get to make sure that it feels good on the person as well too.

Tim: Yeah, yeah. So we have a little joke kind of that we say we get very little returns from our jewelry. Very, very little. I mean, it’s, it’s like 1% if it’s, it’s even that. And when we get a return, the joke is, well, it’s either one of two things. One is not comfortable, which is very rare. Something about the piece of jewelry is not comfortable for the wearer. The other reason is that the gift giver gave them the exact same piece of jewelry previously. So now they have two. And that happens with guys. I bought you that diamond bracelet last week, and it’s the same one. Oh. How about that? So, yes, you can return it.

Mike: I’m gonna say I’m guilty of that. I have done that.

Tim: Yeah, we see it. We get our products so right that we make people just skip out the door once they see it, especially our custom work. You know, it’s just people are very, very happy with the whole experience with us and the product and the way we treat people. It’s really. It’s something that we work very hard at.

Impact of Rising Gold Prices

Madison: How has the rising price of gold impacted your business? And have you noticed a trend in customers trading in or upgrading their jewelry?

Suzanne: Yes, it’s had a little bit of an impact. The price of gold obviously affects the end price of our product. But by the same token, most people have jewelry in their jewelry box that they don’t wear anymore. It’s either out of date, or they inherited it, and it’s not their style, or it’s just something that it’s just not appropriate for them anymore. So this helps offset the increased price of gold because they can trade these items in, and there are very few jewelers in the area that have that ability to evaluate the trades, give them a good, fair value for it, and then be able to process those trades and then create a new piece of jewelry. So I think that’s one of the things that truly makes our business unique. It’s been very vibrant, especially with the market. People are getting top dollar for their trades. They’re paying a little bit more for the jewelry, too, but that sort of balances itself out.

Tim: That’s the valuation side of our business that’s so valuable. Is that in house, we have the technical ability to value. Regarding trades, valuation plays a really, really big part. And that’s something that we can do with our expertise in house, which sets us apart as well. See, valuation isn’t simply something that you plop a piece of gold on a scale and say, this is its value in gold. Of course, anybody can be taught to do that. Valuation is about what’s the value of the gemstones that might be traded or the diamonds, or maybe even a saleable piece of jewelry that shouldn’t be taken apart. That’s the skill that we bring. And this is the really interesting part is I think there’s an offsetting effect with the price of gold. Now, price of gold is approximately $3,000 an ounce. Very close to that. That’s a crazy, crazy price. And everybody in our industry sees that. That makes our product certainly much more expensive at the end of the day. But if someone’s trading something in as simple as maybe a couple wedding bands, it can be hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dollars. It’s showing that it’s offsetting that difference in the gold price. So you’re kind of your trades worth so much more money that it kind of incentivizes the purchase because it offsets the high prices. So we’re kind of seeing it right on both sides. And some of the trades are like, incredible. I mean, it’s not unusual for us to see a $30,000 trade.

Mike: Wow.

Tim: And we’ve had it well above that point. The average trade we see, I would say 3 to 5,000. That’s the average trade. And it’s usually a couple broken chains and a couple old wedding bands and a ugly piece of jewelry from the 1960s. That’s to say. So that’s driving that. It’s helping that offset.

Suzanne: Yeah. And there’s another aspect of that, too. People will come in with jewelry that isn’t really salable, and that’s one sort of value. But they’ll come in with other pieces that maybe have beautiful components. Diamond, a great colored stone that maybe just needs to be polishing and to be reset. So we’re also redesigning people’s heirloom pieces and sentimental pieces. So we’re keeping the part that is beautiful and we’re repurposing the rest of it to create a brand new setting for them. And that’s also a real trend in our marketplace that people are bringing things in and we’re just redesigning and reimagining what they have and taking the bits that they don’t want and using that as the trade.

Mike: This all sounds like so nice and practical.

Suzanne: Yes, it’s very practical. And it’s, and it’s really, it’s a win win for our clients because we’ve had people pick out a fabulous piece of jewelry and walk away with no out of pocket expense with their trades.

Tim: But when we redesign something, it’s one of the most challenging and fun things that we do and the design element of that. You know, you’re looking at something that you’re going to take apart necessarily. We’re going to use the sapphire and we’re going to use these diamonds and we’re going to recreate this and we’re going to repolish everything because we recycle everything in our industry. Not just the gold, but the diamonds can be repolished. They often need to be. Or colored stones can be recut to be more beautiful. And the things that we’ve taken that are really just a mishmash and they’re turned into a fabulous fine piece of jewelry. You know, it appears on our website as well the before and after. It’s amazing and it’s an exciting thing for us to witness because it morphs into something so wonderful in the end.

Suzanne: Yeah. And we do usually feature, if people are on our email list, we usually do feature one email a month which goes over specific before and after scenarios that real life things that we took these pieces of jewelry and made this. So that’s kind of a fun thing. Our clients really like those emails in particular.

Mike: I think that’s a great idea because you know, like store, you know, telling stories or showing what you’ve actually done makes it more real to people. Right. And probably gives ideas and probably helps with people trading in other things.

Suzanne: It gives them an idea of what, what is possible.

Tim: And we’re seeing that a lot from the local market too. I mean the local Yardley, Lower Makefield Market, we’re seeing like a lot of local people that maybe typically we might not see for other reasons. But if you feel like you’re halfway there for your purchase. Right. You’re more likely to get, get excited, and that’s what happened during COVID. So I think that looking back at those years, you know, so many businesses really struggle, but actually the jewelry industry did not. We did not in particular. We had a very good couple years during COVID. We were already kind of appointment based anyway, as we are today. But people had the time to think about what they could trade. They had the time to think about making something custom and they just explored it. And we were very busy.

Shift to Appointment-Based Model

Mike: So I think appointment based makes a lot of sense. Could you explain, like, why you made that pivot and what exactly that means? Like how do people see you at T. Foster now?

Suzanne: So I think the appointment based idea, it came coincidentally, probably around 2018, when we purchased or renovated the building that we’re in now, 7 West Afton Avenue to set up two private showrooms and then a separate reception area to greet people. The idea really was to be able to dedicate everything that we’re talking about to one person without interruption. If you have a general store, one giant room, people can come in, the postman comes in, hey, what are you doing? This way we could really take someone and give them 100% of our attention and time. Then coincidentally, after we set this up, Covid hit the following year, we were already set up for this appointment based. Appointments are also valuable because they give us an idea about what it is you’re wanting to do. So we can prepare. So if you’re searching for a diamond or you have a sort of a redesign, we can kind of set things up in advance so that we’re ready for you and don’t have to have a second appointment. So we can call the client and say, great, you’re coming in. This is what you’re looking for. Let’s be a little bit more specific so I can have things prepared for you. And that’s been really great for the client. It saves them, it saves us time. And it’s really personal. It’s really one on one.

Mike: I was just thinking about it and outside really of homes, cars and educations, jewelry is probably like the next most expensive thing for most people. And most people probably don’t buy it all that often or a lot. And so it’s a big deal for them. Right. So it should be something where you take the time and you schedule an appointment. Right. Like, it just makes a lot of sense.

Suzanne: We think it does. And it’s really worked out great for our clients as well because they know when they come in, they’re going to get us exclusively and they’re going to get the attention that they need.

Mike: Right, right. You’re not going to answer 10 phone calls and open up three cabinets for other people. Like, yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

Tim: It’s much more efficient for everybody, that’s for sure. You know, most people locally will know the Pretty Bird Coffee building. And of course, that was our retail store for 19 years before we moved here. And that was more of a typical retail operation. But I’ll tell you, we had a private showroom within that showroom, and it was the most popular room in the whole store. So that told us something, you know, about privacy and about one on one. So.

Mike: Yeah, that’s great.

Madison: That’s great.

Favorite Designs and Memorable Stories

Madison: All right. With over 30,000 designs created, do you guys have a personal favorite piece or a memorable story behind one?

Suzanne: Tiger Woods. What is his favorite golf club? Do you know what his answer is? All of them. All of his clubs are his favorite. So when you ask us a question like that, it’s almost. We’ve made such amazing pieces of jewelry over the years that there are many favorites, and each one has a story behind it. So of the 30,000 pieces we’ve created, there’s probably 10,000 that are super amazing, that have a story.

Tim: Well, I’ll tell you something that you’ll find very interesting and entertaining. So I had a concept, and I worked on this recently. So we have the Michener Museum in Doylestown, as you know, and so kind of special. Part of that museum specializes in local craftspeople over the years. So I had a concept that we would have a like, a jewelry retrospective of our work over 40 years. And I spoke to the curator about this, and it’s certainly something that’s possible. And it led me to believe that it wouldn’t be things that would be from our stock. I would go back to the archives, and I’d call up Mr. Smith and Mrs. Jones and. And Mr. Bainbridge, and I would say, hey, we made this fabulous necklace for you. Can you loan it to us for the museum opening? So it led me to that thinking process. Where were some of my favorite big pieces that we made over the years, and I made a nice long list. And, you know, maybe one day we’ll actually do that, but there are certainly pieces that stuck in our head that were just amazing to make, that were so beautiful. And we get to see them once in a while, somebody will come in, maybe we haven’t seen them in 25 years. It’s, like, incredible. And they come in, they’re a little bit older as we are, and they say, here’s my piece of jewelry. And, of course, it looks as brand new as the day we made it. And it’s so nice to see a piece like that. And you’re like, wow. You know, and we remember every piece. There’s no question. And I throw out that number 30,000 pieces but you know, it could be 50,000. You know, it’s so difficult. We have an archival system today set up that, you know, ultimately we will give those archives to a museum like Michener just to put them somewhere. So hundreds of years from now, people will be able to research, you know, research our product, because everything we make is signed. Everything is then recorded in our archives. But that’s typically fine jewelry. I mean, you can trace most pieces, yeah.

Mike: I thought the question was almost like, tell us which of your children is your favorite. Like, which of your 30,000 design pieces?

Tim: Well, that’s easy. William’s my favorite child. My only child. That’s easy.

Advice for First-Time Buyers

Madison: All right. What advice would you give to someone considering their first fine jewelry purchase or custom design experience?

Tim: Well, the thing that we, we preach, which really comes out in so many positive ways, is that we preach quality. There’s so much in jewelry that’s mass produced, a lot of things overseas, a lot of things that are, you know, treated and not, not as genuine as they should be. But when you focus on quality, you wind up with something that you’re going to love for a long, long time and the valuation is going to stay really strong. When we look at a piece that was made 100 years ago or 70 years ago, it gets very high marks for valuation just from its manufacturing quality and quality of stones. Something that’s mediocre gets very low marks and it’s always really been true. So our advice is, you know, it doesn’t really matter what your budget is, just focus on buying something that’s really, really, really fine quality. So yeah, that’s our place.

Suzanne: And I think the second part of that is to, is to seek out an establishment where you feel comfortable. You know, where the people who are representing their jewelry or are working with you to find the right piece for you, that they really care about you and not just about making a sale, you know, so I think that’s a valuable thing as well. Typically individually owned jewelry store, you’re going to get more of that rather than a chain where you just have salespeople who maybe aren’t as knowledgeable and sort of sales goals that they’re obligated to, you know, a smaller business like ours, you won’t have that, that push. And so that would be my piece of advice is really find an establishment where you’re very comfortable with the people that you feel at ease, that you trust them and you have that level of comfort. So those two things, quality and comfort.

Tim: Yeah. And our industry is mainly made up of small operations like ours to be, you know, there you can, you can pick out all the big chains, of course, but if you look at, across the country, there’s just thousands and thousands of businesses that are knowledgeable people that are just small businesses. And that’s the way that works. And that’s the best scenario.

Mike: Yeah, it’s the same as our industry.

Where to Find T. Foster & Co.

Madison: All right, where can our listeners find more about you and T. Foster & Co.?

Jennie: So your listeners can go on our website. So tfosterjewelers.com has a lot of information about Tim and Suzanne specifically, and their background, too. And you can look at all of their old archived jewelry designs on the website as well for some inspiration. You can also go on our Instagram. So we’re always posting our new designs on Instagram and any promotions. So, like our sale, we have our annual sale going on right now for March. And and also on Facebook, sign up for our email list. Emails are going out every week. So, yeah, always keeping us in the loop.

Closing Remarks

Tim: Can I just make a concluding remark? Just so strong. So I can only really hold up two of these. These are two trophies of national jewelry design awards we won in our industry with the most prestigious jewelry design and jewelry manufacturing award process there is in our industry. We’ve won four of those awards.

Mike: Wow.

Tim: And what I say about that is when you were celebrated by your peers, it’s the most, absolutely the most, greatest honor that you can get. It’s not just a review of somebody that’s had a good experience with you, which is really important. But when you’re in a room of five or six or seven hundred people from all over the country, all over North America, actually, and everyone’s applauding because you won the award, it’s an incredible moment. And we can sit here and say all day that we make an incredible quality product, but at the end of the day, our industry has recognized that we are superior in design. And some of these awards also were for workmanship and quality, craftsmanship, and we’re competing against seven and 800 entries to do that, so.

Mike: Oh, congratulations. That’s fantastic.

Tim: Very proud of that.

Mike: Yeah, you should be.

Tim: Probably don’t say it enough.

Suzanne: And, you know, there’s multiple jewelry design award things. Like there are multiple everything. But this is the Oscars of the Jewelry Design Awards. It’s the American Gem Trade Association Spectrum Awards.

Tim: Oh, there’s a red carpet and there’s a tuxedo required, and a gown. We have the pictures.

Mike: I bet there’s a lot of good jewelry in that audience, too.

Suzanne: Yes, there is. Yeah.

Tim: And we won four years in a row. Then one year we didn’t win. We had entries and we had some beautiful things, but. And, you know, we said to our son, oh, you know, we didn’t win this year would have been our fifth year. I’m not sure exactly, you know, there. And our son said in his very, you know, very diplomatic way, he said, you know, dad, sometimes you have to give other people a chance to win.

Mike: I was thinking about Candice Bergen when she put herself out of the Emmy running for Murphy Brown, she won like, five years in a row and then just said, it’s time for somebody else, so.

Tim: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. But we keep trying. And so, you know.

Suzanne: But, you know, at the end of the day, you know, we’ve been doing this for 42 years. We absolutely love it. We love to come to work. Our clients are the greatest people. We’ll spend sometimes 15, 20 minutes working on a jewelry design, and another 45 minutes just talking and chatting and having coffee and you know, getting to know each other better. That’s really what makes T. Foster & company I think, such a unique experience is we’re not just– You don’t really come in just for jewelry. You come in for the whole experience, you know?

Tim: I’m sure that’s true with your business as well.

Mike: Sure. It’s not just numbers, that’s even the name of the podcast.

Suzanne: Not just jewelry.

Tim & Suzanne: Thank you for having us.

Mike: Awesome. Thank you so much. This was great for us.

Madison: This was great. For more information on Yardley Wealth Management or Yardley Estate Planning, you can visit our websites at yardleywealth.net and yardleyestate.net. you can also follow us on socials at Yardley Wealth Management. Don’t forget to smash the like button if you enjoyed this episode. This podcast has been Produced by Madison Demora and Mike Garry with technical and artistic help from Poe Productions.