Episode 17: Not Just Numbers

Table of Contents

• Introduction
• Discussion on ‘Coming Soon, Revenge of the Baby Boomers’
• Why are Baby Boomers Concerned About Retirement Savings?
• Understanding Target Date Funds and Their Risks
• The Retirement Risk Zone
• How Baby Boomers Can Navigate the Risk Zone
• Introduction to Yardley Refillery with Dan McLaughlin
• The Future of Yardley Refillery
• Conclusion

Introduction

Madison: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the 17th episode of Not Just Numbers, Honest Conversations with a Financial Advisor and Lawyer. I am Madison Demora, and I am here with Mike Garry.

Mike is the financial advisor and the CFP and the founder and the CEO of Yardley Wealth Management. He is also an estate planning lawyer and his law firm is Yardley Estate Planning. Hey, Mike.

Mike: Hey, Maddie. How are you?

Madison: I’m good. How are you?

Mike: I can’t complain.

Discussion on ‘Coming Soon, Revenge of the Baby Boomers’

Madison: Today we are going to talk about an article we found on Advisors perspectives and it is titled ‘Coming Soon, Revenge of the Baby Boomers’ and that is by Ron Surz. All right, so like the other episodes, I will read a little summary of the article and you can also find the link to the article in the description. So the article discusses baby boomers concerns in the US regarding the safety of their retirement savings, especially in target date funds (TDFs). With 76 million boomers holding $70 trillion in assets, they fear potential losses during their retirement, the risk zone. The main worry is that the TDFs, despite their popularity, may not be as secure as believed due to their risky investments. Boomers are calling for better protection and considering a shift to more secure options like personalized target date accounts. The author warns that ignoring these concerns can lead to significant consequences for TDF providers, likening it to the automobile industry safety issues in the 1960s. The article advises boomers to explore safer alternatives like treasury bills and intermediate tips for financial security during the risk zone. All right, Mike, so some questions for you. Why are baby boomers concerned about the safety of their retirement savings? And what role do target date funds play in these concerns?

Why are Baby Boomers Concerned About Retirement Savings?

Mike: Great questions, Maddie. Great questions. So, let’s talk a little bit about, like, the whole idea of retirement savings in the first place. So before World War II, people just worked, as long as they were useful and then they would stop working, their family would take care of them. Very few people had any kind of savings, and there were no retirement plans or very, very few pensions. After World War II, there started to be pensions. And so bigger companies and governments would provide pensions. And those pensions are what is called defined benefit plans. What that means is, at whatever your salary rate is, if you work a certain number of years, you knew what your retirement was going to be. And so if you work 30 years and got to be at least 50 or 55 or 60 and you worked at a certain level, you would know what your pension check would be. And you get that check every month for the rest of your life, and then you would have some choices. If you’re married, maybe you get a little bit less, but then the rest would go to your spouse if you died before him or her. Right. And so that was a pretty secure retirement for people who worked in those times. And in the seventies and eighties, companies stopped or slowed down greatly the use of those pension plans because they’re expensive. It costs a lot of money. For the cost of companies, a lot of money to put away so much for each employee. And so big companies that have billions of dollars in their pension plans, and they made the move towards 401K plans. And the 401K plans are much cheaper for employers. But that cost that comes with that, though, is that the employee then has to figure out how to provide that stream of money in retirement. And most employees don’t have backgrounds in finance or investments. Right. And so it really shifted the burden from the employer to the employee. And so from the employer’s perspective, that’s great. It’s cheaper, and you don’t have the responsibility or risk of running a pension plan. But now employees are left to their own devices. And now there are some positives for some employees, right. If you’re relatively well off and you could save a lot, you know, that is something that you can do. And so you could have a better outcome than you could have under a pension plan. And also, it might be better for the economy as a whole because you’re not going to be tied to one job. Right. One of the drawbacks of a pension plan is what if you get into a career and you’re ten years in and you hate your job, you don’t like your coworkers, but if you make it to ten more years or 15 more years, you get a pension for the rest of your life. Most people will stick it out unless it becomes really intolerable. Right. And so the 401ks gave employees freedom, and there are pluses and minuses with it. And so now, of course, baby boomers are, many are, I guess many are retired, and a lot of them are in retirement age or close to it. And one other difference from their parents is that they could live 30 or 40 years in retirement. Many of them do. And so not only do you not have that steady check, you need to make sure your savings could potentially last a long time. Right. You know, if you retire at 60, I think that the odds are a couple that retires at 60. It’s really likely that one of them, probably the female, if there’s one in that couple, will make it to 90 or above. It’s a long time. Right. It’s almost as long as your working career. So there’s understandable why people feel concerned. Right. And so, the burden is all on the individual. They don’t have any expertise necessarily. And the working part is relatively easy. Right. If you have a plan, you have a 401K plan. The biggest determinant of how successful you’ll be is how much you put in it. So it’s easier to know what to do when you’re still working. Right? Like, okay, if I put away a little bit more next year, that’s better. Or if I could put the max, that’s awesome. And so let’s try to do that. But then you get close to retirement, and then you know we get a lot of clients because of that. Cause they get to be 55, 60, 65, and figure, okay, I think I might wanna retire. What do I do now? How do I make sure that my retirement, that the money that I have can last me for my life? So it’s hard. Now getting to the target date funds where they come in is they are a common choice. Right. They’re going to be in most retirement plans because there are rules around 401ks and target date plans can satisfy some of the investment rules. And so most employers have them. We have them in ours. And so if you are a certain age and you think, oh, I’m going to retire in the year 2035, I’m going to pick this fund, that is the retirement 2035 fund. That could take some worry and some risk out of the decision making. Sounds good, right?

Madison: Yeah.

Understanding Target Date Funds and Their Risks

Mike: The thing is, there’s no rules, really, around what is in a target date fund for a certain year. And so it’s going to be a mix of, it’s typically a mix of fund of funds. Right. So it’s going to be, if you have it through American funds, let’s say it’s going to be 8, 10, 12 different funds within that fund. And then the asset allocation will be based on your age. And so when you’re young, like you are, it would be mostly stocks, maybe a little bit of bonds or cash, or maybe none. And then when you get to advanced middle age, like I am, you know, it would be less stocks, it’d be more bonds and some more cash. But there’s no rules on what it has to be or should be. And so the various providers could have a lot of differences in them. And so sometimes they’ll get down to, like 30% stocks when somebody’s 65, or maybe it’d be 50% stocks or 60% stocks. And that, and that could be a big difference. And then also sometimes they have long term bonds. Well, long term bonds can be very risky in the short run. The 20 and 30 year treasuries last year went down 20% / 30%. No one is looking for that in the bond part of their portfolio. Most years they would provide more return than intermediate bonds or short term bonds, but not always. We stay away from long term bonds because of that. We like to take our risk in stocks and then have safer bond

1. But, like, our bond funds went down last year, too. Not as much as that, but they did. So there’s lots of reasons why baby boomers are nervous about their retirement. And I think target date funds, as the author says, are a big part of that. There’s a reason why they’re concerned. How’s that for a long winded answer?

Madison: Yeah, no, that’s totally makes sense. So why, like, what causes that, like, shift? Like you said, for my investment, it would be more stocks and everything. So why once you get to middle aged, why does it change?

Mike: Yeah, so it changes. You know, they call it a glide path, so you start with a lot of stocks because you expect, well, first, at your age, most people don’t have a lot of money and they’re going to be buying into their fund over their lifetime. And stocks have better long term performance than anything else. And so if you have a lot of stocks when you’re in your twenties or thirties, you expect that your returns from them by the time you’re in your fifties, sixties or seventies is going to be really, really good. And then the downside of stocks is that in the short run, they can be very volatile. You know, it’s not unusual at all for stocks to be down 10 ,20, 30% in a year. And four times in my lifetime, the S&P 500 has been down by half. And actually three times in your lifetime it has. Right. So, yeah. So in the short run, stocks can be pretty scary. And so the idea is that over time, you have less in stocks. It should make for a less risky portfolio, and you can take more risk when you’re younger and less risk when you’re older. That’ a great question, Maddie.

Madison: Okay. Awesome. So how significant is the financial influence of baby boomers in the United States, and how does their wealth impact the financial industry?

Mike: Well, the impact and the significance of the baby boomers has been talked about my whole life. I’m a Gen Xer, an old Gen Xer, but it’s real. It’s a big generation. I feel like they made houses more expensive than they should have been. They made college more expensive than it should have been. But, you know, there’s no denying that they’re gigantic, and they are the main, uh, clients and customers of the financial services industry. Right. They are the generation that has the most money, uh, by a lot. So. Yeah, so they are very, very significant.

The Retirement Risk Zone

Madison: Okay, so what is the retirement risk zone, and why is it considered a critical period of baby boomers financial security?

Mike: Maddie, that’s a great question because, um, I had never heard it referred to as such. So I’ve been in this industry for 25 years, and I read a lot about it, and I never had heard of the retirement risk zone being like, the five years before and after you retire. But that is really a critical time, because that is when people make a lot of decisions about when they’re going to stop work and how they’re going to start retirement, and those decisions are going to impact how the retirement is going to play out. And so I think getting those decisions right is really critically important. And so maybe I should have heard of that term before, but I never heard of it. Maybe he’s trying to make that famous. I don’t know.

Madison: Why are many TDF participants unaware of the high risk associated with these funds as they approach retirement? And what role do plan sponsors play in this?

Mike: Yeah. So why they’re unaware of the risks is because most people don’t know that much about investing. And if you see a bunch of choices and you’re not sure what to do, but you think, hey, I’m going to retire in 2035, I’ll pick the 2035 fund. Makes perfect sense, right? Like, I think that the funds kind of maybe lull participants into a false sense of security. And I don’t think the plan sponsors are necessarily doing anything wrong or evil. You know, like, they are having this 401k because they think it will lure people there or keep people at their jobs or it’s, you know, for most companies, after you get a couple of employees, it’s kind of expected that you’re going to have something. Right. So I don’t know really what they should be doing. I think that plan sponsors, especially ones that use third companies to run their 401k’s, do try to provide a lot of education, but, you know, I don’t know how much people take advantage of that, and I don’t really know that, that it would meet the need. So I think when the author talks about, like, the revenge of the baby boomers and maybe boomers, like, suing or banding together to, to make changes, maybe that’s the way to make something happen here.

Madison: Okay. What are the recommended actions for individuals nearing retirement who are invested in TDFs, and why are these actions considered safer alternatives?

Mike: So I think what participants need to do is figure out what their asset allocation should be and how much they can afford to spend from that and that may or may not line up with how the target date fund is allocated. So as I said earlier, some of them go down to like 30% in stocks and we would never recommend that we might have a client or two that has that few because they could afford to do that and they’re really risk averse. But most people probably need 50% to 65% in stocks so that they could keep up with inflation over a possibly 30 or 40 year time horizon. And so I guess what people need to do is take a look to see what the asset allocation is in the target date fund, see how it will change and figure out whether their income that they need from those assets can be made safely on an inflation adjusted basis from the amount that they have. And you know what? Most people can’t figure that out. So it is a real problem.

Madison: Yeah. How can individuals, especially baby boomers, navigate the risk zone effectively to ensure their financial security and retirement?

How Baby Boomers Can Navigate the Risk Zone

Mike: Yeah. They need to plan. Right. The way that we do when, when we’re meeting with clients, especially as they’re preparing for retirement. Right. So they need to figure out a whole lot of things, and it all comes with planning. And so people who plan for their retirement and have an idea of how successful be, are just going to be more successful. If you take a look and run the numbers and have your advisor, your CPA help you with that and give you an idea of how secure your retirement is and what steps you need to do to make it better, well, you’re likely to be better off compared to somebody just says, hey, my last day is Friday and I’m going to start taking money out of my account because they have no idea what might happen.

Madison: Yeah, it sounds kind of like it could be a guessing game.

Mike: Yes. And I think a lot of people do that. They’re not sure. And so they just like, well, this is what I’m going to do. But there are alternatives. You could, you could hire somebody.

Introduction to Yardley Refillery with Dan McLaughlin

Madison: We are joined here today with Dan McLaughlin. Dan is one of the owners of Yardley Refillery…

The Future of Yardley Refillery

Madison: Yeah. Yeah. We are joined here today with Dan McLaughlin. Dan is one of the owners of Yardley Refillery here in Yardley. Dan, would you like to explain to our listeners what Yardley Refillery is and how it came about and maybe a little background about yourself?

Dan: Sure. My name is Dan McLaughlin. I’m married. I live in Yardley, so we’re all local in the ownership group. Have three daughters, have been married for 28 years, and primarily, most of my career was in corporate finance. But I got the entrepreneurial bug about, I would say, ten years ago, and in that process, opened three hardware stores, and, under the True Value brand, grew it to three stores, and ultimately ended up selling them to a larger organization in 2021. In December 2021. The ownership group knows each other through our affiliations and working together at Firminish, which is a fragrance and flavor company that’s located in Princeton. I worked there for ten years. Jamie and Rob worked there over 20 years, and that’s really where our friendship started. Rob and I were very close. Jamie and I were very close. We worked very closely together in the fragrance world. My primary background is in finance as I said. Jamie’s was in marketing, and Rob’s was in kind of product formulation and the chemistry behind those fragrances. So we kind of each were friends, but each had a different kind of subject that we were probably expertise in. The genesis of the store is kind of a, you know, it’s an interesting story, I guess, in ours, is that Rob and I always would sit in my office and be like, what can we do? How can we get out of corporate America? How can we realize our dreams of ownership or having our own ownership? And I kind of made the jump. Rob didn’t. So then I owned the hardware stores. But after I sold them, Rob and I had been in contact with each other throughout those years, had hung out, and I think he was a little bit interested in how that hardware store model formulated and came to me and said, I think I have a great idea. And I said, tell me about your idea. And he showed me what we call a zero waste or low waste store, but we’ll use that term interchangeably with refillery. And he and Jamie showed what we can do as individuals to become low waste, zero waste, which was interesting. You know, we had the conversation, nothing happened. And then I just. My wife, Karen, and I started noticing in our lives how prevalent this cycle of buying, consuming, throwing out, buying, consuming, throwing out. And one day, and again, I say, I have three daughters. I went out to the recycle bin and there was this mound of plastic that we had generated, water bottles, shampoo bottles, you know, lotion bottles, antibacterial hand sanitizer bottles. And I guess I needed that shock moment to say, wait a second. Like, there is maybe some merit to this business model. So we reengaged. And just at that moment, the space in Yardley came up that I had always kind of wanted as a hardware store, like, you know, right in town, Yardley was, I think, desperate for, like, something local like that. And, you know, we just put it together. We had a meeting. And we talked to the landlord, and he was ready to go. He loved the concept. And so now we had this, you know, we had the space, but what was the concept? And so what we really did was just go through our house and say, here’s our bathroom. What are the things that we’ve been buying, consuming, throwing out? And can we change that paradigm into buy, consume, refill? And so you realize, like, almost everything you do in your bathroom, your kitchen, your laundry room, underneath your sink, in your medicine cabinet, in your garage, you’re in this perpetual cycle of buying, consuming, throwing out. And all our mission really is, is to change that, to buy, consume, refill, and use that container. Because in my mind, when I went out to that recycle bin and saw, I don’t know if I’m a firm believer that that’s really being recycled. I don’t have proof, but I know, and I’ve done a lot of research that the business economics behind plastic recycling are not feasible. Meaning it costs ten cents to recycle, and you only get $0.08 in return. So that’s a business that doesn’t last very long. And so we just started getting. Then, Jamie, we tried to marry. Listen, let’s get some really wholesome brands. And when I mean wholesome meaning sustainable, cruelty free, you know, whenever possible, using healthy ingredients, that support not only the refill mission, but also a health and sustainability mission. And so when we tried to, I think the success of the store, and it’s been really phenomenally successful has been the marrying of a recycling mission with a health and wellness mission. And we have this. This phrase that I think is great, progress not perfection. You don’t have to perfect in your life about recycling or, you know, you know, finding products that, you know, meet a certain. But you can try and you can make it a part of your life. And I think the excitement when you see people come in and they kind of just want that ability to not only make a difference on the recycling part, but also to make a difference on that lifestyle and health and wellness endeavor. And there’s products that we use every day. Like, you know, one of the ahA’s that there’s like probably five or six products that we have changed just by the fact of having the store in our own lives that you were like, wow, I’ll say deodorant. You know, every day we probably get in this habit of twice a day using deodorant and antiperspirant, and it’s primarily a metal. I don’t know if people are aware of this, that, that perform the antiperspirant part. It’s aluminum, aluminum zirconium. And this is being traced to dementia now, breast cancer, a host of illnesses. And you realize, I’ve been doing this, I’m 53, I’ve been doing this for 52 years, putting something underneath my arms twice a day that’s potentially not healthy. And then you’re like..

Madison: What else is doing that?

Dan: What else? Right, exactly. Like, and so everything in the store tries to achieve those two goals. And I think I’ve been really excited about the refillery aspect of it. People are getting into that, but I’ve been amazed at the health consciousness of our, of our customer base and how they’re desperate for options that don’t, don’t force us into an unhealthy solution.

Madison: Yeah. That’s so cool. Because we took a stroll down there because we’re just a few doors down from you guys, and I thought the idea of refilling is so cool. And I thought it was like, wow, you could probably save a lot of money with this, but I had no idea about the chemical aspect of that. That’s very interesting.

Dan: Yeah. Most of the things you put in underneath your sink, all the chemicals in terms of cleaners, all the chemicals that you use. We have a nice little garden section that’s probably going to take off in the spring where there’s all natural fungicides, insecticides, weed killers. One example. We’re all familiar with the word roundup in the hardware stores. I sold a lot of roundup in my life, and maybe I’ll, I’ll regret that someday. I surely. My customer base every year was getting more and more educated about the adverse effects of roundup. Well, there’s a simple natural product called vinegar that’s at dosage of 20%, 30% is a more effective weed killer than roundup without any of the chemicals and without any of the harmful effects. Plus, it’s natural. Acetic acid is a natural thing, which you can spray on a vegetable and you can eat it within the hour. It’s just vinegar might not taste, might have a little sting, but it’s all natural, and it’s not going to harm you.

Mike: Right. My wife and I were looking at that because we stopped using things on the lawn because of two dogs, and that means she spent all last year weeding a whole lot. We will definitely try the vinegar solution.

Dan: Natural vinegar at 30%. Now, household vinegar in your kitchen or cleaning is around 5%. So you can see this is, like, four times to six times the strength of normal distilled vinegar that you have maybe in your kitchen for cleaning purposes, but it’s very effective, and it’s all natural.

Mike: That’s great.

Dan: And so those are the kind of things that we get excited about.

Mike: And thanks for walking us through the idea of where you’re going to stop. Because when walking through, I couldn’t, like, put my finger on exactly like, where. What the different things were. But you say, like, under your kitchen sink or your medicine cabinet, your garage.

Dan: The store is situated literally in by rooms of your house, like, bathroom, kitchen, laundry room, maybe, like, underneath the sink or utility room, medicine cabinet. So it has a logical flow that you’re like, oh, okay. And you don’t have to do it all at once. Sometimes people get overwhelmed. But as you see, people come in and start to be like, they connect the dots. Like, wait a minute, I have this. I’m finally empty of this like, lemon Clorox cleaner. Like, oh, here’s an all purpose. I can use the Clorox bottle. I can weigh it, and I can refill it. And to me, that’s the essence of recycling. Like, recycling, to me, is not anymore just taking it out to the bin and throwing it out and making it someone else’s problem. To me, recycling is using the same container, whether it’s plastic or glass and or aluminum or metal, and keep just reusing, reusing, reusing.

Mike: Right.

Madison: Why did you guys choose Yardley?

Dan: Well, we’re all from Yardley, and one of the tenets of retail is always location, location, location. So it’s. You can have a great idea in a bad location, and you’re not going to get very far. So our knowledge of Yardley, I’ve always thought that space was unique, ideal, quintessential Yardley. And I’d watched, like, a bunch of questionable tenants go in there that you’re just like, is that really a great fit for downtown Yardley? Like, there used to be black eyed susans, which I guess had some, you know, kind of connectivity, but then you had a bank, and then you had a gift shop that didn’t really have much, I don’t know, sticking power. And we also wanted to make Yardley vibrant again. I feel like it’s underutilized. It’s under commercialized, and I use commercialize in a good way in that it’s good to have a downtown. It’s good to have thriving local businesses. It’s good to have people walking around. It brings a sense of community into the town that I think we’re just starting to get over the hump, I think, in terms of developing that. When I first came here, Yardley downtown was very sleepy. It was, there wasn’t much of a downtown. It was a lot of realtors, and it still is, but it, I think with the introduction of, you know, the Vault, Panna, I’m trying to think, you know, Pretty Bird. It’s developing a little bit, us, Krysset. I think it develops a little bit of a town feel that I think benefits everybody.

Mike: Yeah. There’s a lot more here than there was. We moved here 18 years ago, and so that was even before, like, the continental was bought and redone. And so it’s a. It’s a lot more to do here now than there was.

Dan: Yeah. The continental was kind of a scary place, like, when we first came. I mean, not scary, but it was like a, it was kind of a rundown bar, like, I mean, without being negative. And now it’s like a central meeting spot.

Madison: Yeah. I love how it’s all, like, small businesses, too. Like, you don’t really see a lot of chain restaurants or anything. It’s kind of everyone’s own little thing, and I think it makes it more personal.

Dan: Right, exactly. Exactly.

Madison: What are some of the reactions customers have since you guys been open?

Dan: So, you know, as a natural pessimist in my life, I was, you know, you’re always worried with a new concept or something that’s untried. Right. And I tend to be, with my financial background, a little bit risk averse. And so in my mind, I didn’t know what this was going to be to people. I didn’t know how the reaction was going to be. Were enough people going to come? Were they going to get it? Were they going to say, this idea is crazy, you’re nuts. And it’s been anything but that. From the first day, the excitement of people. Listen, we’re not creating environmentalism. It’s within people. I think what we’re just giving it is an outlet. And I think the most, I guess the most rewarding feeling we’ve all had is that, see, people say, finally, somebody’s doing something to help me recycle. Be more earth conscious, be more, you know, allow me to make a difference, rather than just throw something out in a recycle bin and hope that that’s achieving the recycling goals that I, as a person, want. I think that they were really, really happy and very, very appreciative that there’s now a solution to their need, to their desire to be more health conscious, be more environmentally conscious. And that’s been, when you see people’s eyes and they walk around, they’re like, oh, my God, this is amazing, finally. And then I’ve also been inspired by our younger, the younger generation. The teenage kids were already there, too, and wanting to do their part. So it’s really been inspirational for me as an owner to see people this excited about the concept in the store.

Mike: That’s good to hear, because I have to say, it’s beautiful in the store. The layout makes perfect sense, and there’s all sorts of products. I really feel like if people go in and try it, they will like it and come back. For the most part, I really think that.

Dan: There’s also a concept of devolving a little bit. I think we want you to take a little bit of time. We want you to not just pick something off the shelf, but be conscious of pumping something, even a little bit of taking your mind off the natural stressors, I think, that we’ve created in our lives. Put your phone down. And if you take 20 minutes and walk around and fill bottles, there is a therapeutic aspect to it. I think that it slows people down. So many people are like, oh, can I order on the website? You know, do you have..? And we’re like, we intentionally don’t want this to be an online store. Now, maybe it’ll evolve at some point to that, but we want you to come in, we want you to explore. We want you to slow down and do something that, quite frankly, I remember my grandmother talking about the general store that she would go to. And while this isn’t a general store away in the past, it has aspects of that where you come in on maybe two, three times a week to fill something and to go along with your day. Like, there’s intentional, I call it devolving. Like, there’s technology in the store. There’s things that are really cool, but we want you to slow down. We want you to enjoy the experience for just a little bit. And that’s been the feedback, too, is that people feel like, they call it like a calming space and feel like that’s something that Jamie, I think, worked very hard at creating in terms of the colors, the paint, the layout, the, all the different types of, you know, we’ll call it merchandising, is to calm you down, to bring you down a little bit.

Madison: Yeah, I could definitely see how she laid it out that way. Even when we walked in. It does. Because it is a new concept. It can be overwhelming for customers.

Dan: It’s intentionally not jammed packed with product. It’s intentionally. The colors are there almost like to have a relaxing feeling, almost a homey feeling. And the store is laid out to wander. So we want you to kind of like, move around the store. We don’t, you know, we don’t want you to just to go to one spot and come back and, you know, and check out. We want you to take a little time for yourself. And there’s some treats there, too. Like, I would, you know, grab a couple nuts and enjoy yourself. Some stuff that’s tasty and healthy.

Mike: I think they were the everything bagel cashews.

Dan: They’re the number one seller. So we go through like 50 pounds a week.

Mike: My wife and I bought a bag and it was gone pretty quickly. And I’m going to say she had a couple. I had a lot. They’re really good.

Dan: So that’s all organic. So everything. All of our vendors are vetted very, very thoroughly. So all of our vendors, everything in the food aisle is, we’ll call the food aisle, organic. And what you’re finding is you can get a better, superior product at the same price when you take the container away. So I challenge anybody who watches this or listening. Use spices, for example. When you go get organic spices at the supermarket, you’re going to pay probably double per ounce than we’re offering. And people are like, well, how can you do that? And you’re like, well, when you take a glass container out of the exercise, that’s how you can do it. And so one of the things we want to make sure everyone is cognizant about is that these are superior products at supermarket prices. So we will go and challenge anyone to come in and say, hey, you’re more expensive than a comparable product. We’re cheaper than Whole Foods. We don’t have the overhead that they have the supermarket brands, you know, even if you make them a comparison, which they’re not. Our products are going to stand up not only in efficacy, but also price. And I’ll use the example to the low waste theme. Our detergents are from Rustic Strength, a very, very sustainable company that came out of a couple that was frustrated with store bought products. Supermarket products were causing their children to have rashes and have allergic reactions. And so they created their own brand, which evolved into this major corporation that is totally dedicated to sustainable, healthy products, primarily in the detergent section, the laundry section. Okay, so we sell it for $0.32 an ounce. And Tide is at $0.24 an ounce. So we had this question. A lady came in and said, hey, you know, you’re more expensive than Tide. And what we said was, you only have to use 1oz of our product per load. You have to use 2oz of Tide. And we’re all familiar with filling up the cup with Tide. So suddenly their 24oz becomes $0.48 a load. Where ours is $0.32 because you only need to use 1oz. Ours is a concentrate. Ours is much more powerful. Ours is not full of water and perfume and filler, quote unquote filler that the other main major brands are filling, finding themselves doing very regularly now. So I can’t think of one thing on a premium product that we wouldn’t be comparable even on an everyday product. And you’ll notice that’s kind of the theme, is that we want to change people. And unfortunately, it feels like change always comes with a higher price tag. And we were adamant that we wanted this change to be. Not hurt you in the pocketbook.

Madison: Yep. So what are some of your best sellers and most popular refills?

Dan: So it’s. It’s interesting. You know, obviously, the nuts and the spices are doing phenomenally well. I would say the food section does very, very well. But what I’ve been, you know, interested in and seeing how well that’s turning over is the laundry section, because those are you’re up against major brands, right? So you’re up against Tide. You know, All, you know, Gain. Major, major brands have been in people’s lives for years. And to see people switch so quickly over has been interesting. And we do a ton of laundry business. So, you know, that’s where those big barrels are. And we’ve sold a lot of laundry product.

Madison: Okay, so what do people typically like, fill the laundry product up with? Is it usually like a glass bottle?

Dan: You know, it’s interesting. It’s great story, Madison. There’s nothing more joyful in our world than when you bring a Tide bottle and fill it up with Rustic Strength. So I would say in the cleaning department, people are buying glassware very regularly, but I think they’re starting to put the two and two together. Like, wait a minute. I can bring this plastic, my plastic bottle. I think there was a little bit of shame.

Madison: Yeah. Like, that’s almost insulting to you.

Dan: Right, no. And we say, listen, that’s the best recycling, right? That product’s already been made. That plastic bottle has already been developed. Like, but if you keep using that bottle, then, Then you’re recycling. And I love, you know, just my natural competitiveness. Like, I love when, you know, we fill an All laundry detergent bottle with our detergent. I feel like that’s a win.

Mike: Think about all the plastic that would save, even just in a couple of months or a year. Like, it’s shocking.

Dan: And every time you refill, you’re literally saving a plastic bottle. Like, it. Like, it didn’t need to be created. Right? Like, you can argue that, you know, when we put it in those dumpsters that something’s happening to them, but this is, you know, that this is happening because you’re doing it.

Madison: What would you say, Yardley Refillery’s role is in the community?

Dan: Listen, at the end of the day, it’s a business, and I always am weary about advocacy, you know, but we all have our lives. We all have different opinions. We all have, you know what our role is to provide a sustainable, health conscious refillery that meets a need of somebody to recycle by also offering them great products to recycle with. So we’re a business. We need to make money, but we want to help you in that journey to do good by this earth. And so we don’t want to get too much into politics, into, you know, advocacy. You should be doing this. We want people to get on that Journey themselves. We’ll provide education, but there’s no. There’s no certain type of person that’s, you know, I want to say welcome or not welcome at the store. Like, if you. If you just do one bottle in your house, you’ve done. You made a difference, right? Like, if you do 20 bottles, well, you’ve made a bigger difference. But we’re here as a community based business that you can utilize for your needs. That’s how I want to approach it. I don’t want this to be anything more than something that helps the community meet a goal. And if we can be a part of that. That’s great. And if we can be successful at it, that’s even greater.

Madison: Yeah, that’s awesome. Wonderful.

Dan: Everyone’s welcome is what I want to say. And to your point, you were like, oh, I feel bad about bringing a plastic bottle. Don’t. And we had, you know, at the Christmas parade today, last week, people came up to us and said, I really didn’t think I’d be the type of person that would go into that store. And we were like, well, what did you mean by that? You know, there’s stereotypes and, you know, things that we think that are probably unfounded, but they’re real, and they prevent people from doing things. And what I wanted to tell everyone, and I hope that message comes clear, is there’s everyone’s welcome. Like, whether you just like the nuts, whether you just like the everything bagel, whether you just, you know, like a certain shampoo bar, it’s a place to come and feel like at some point you’re making a difference, but we’re filling your need. You’re not fulfilling our need.

Madison: Yeah, I can definitely see that. Yeah.

Mike: Yeah. And I like the idea of bringing that plastic bottle that you use for something else and then just refilling that.

Dan: Number one question: is that okay? Is it okay if I bring a plastic bottle? You’re like, that’s exactly what we want you to do. That’s exactly the plan is to keep that plastic bottle in circulation.

Madison: So what’s interesting to me is that I’ve never heard of a refillery before. And so is that, like, a common business that’s in other communities, or do people travel to come here?

Dan: Well, so as always, Europe is always ahead of us in America. I don’t know why that is. And they are prevalent in Europe. So I wouldn’t say they’re mainstream in Europe, but they’re definitely in Europe more so than the United States. They’re definitely more prevalent in the United States on the west coasts. And I want to say in more, you know, we found them in urban areas that kind of have that kind of feel to them in terms of, you know, social consciousness and desire to make a difference, but they weren’t, they’re not in any way, shape, or form mainstream in the United States. Yeah, I think there’s in the United States a total of 200.

Madison: Wow. So do you have a lot of people that travel to Yardley Refillery?

Dan: We have people coming from Jersey, from as far away as New Hope. We’ve definitely had Princeton people come in and, you know, our expansion plans are definitely going to take in consideration those areas. So we want to find the right fit again for the, you know, if we decide to expand. But people are coming further than I thought they would. It’s not just a Yardley thing. People are coming definitely from Newtown, New Hope. The furthest away person. I think people. Some people come from South Philadelphia. On a pretty regular basis.

Madison: Awesome.

Dan: I think they have family and Yardley, though, but. Suddenly they’re visiting their mom much more.

Madison: There you go. So, do you have any funny stories about the shop so far?

Dan: I’m surprised at how bad aim our customers have, and maybe that’s a little bit of our fault. We do have funnels, but one of the downsides of refillery is that there’s a little bit of spillage that we have to get used to, and there’s no problem if you do. Gauging how much to put in a bottle. I don’t think we’re very good at that. The people, I think, get into the pumping, but they usually overflow the bottle. Not usually, but in many instances, overflow. So I think the funny story is just. There was a lady who started talking to another customer, and she was refilling her olive oil bottle.

Mike: Oh, no.

Dan: And she got into this engaging conversation and forgot that she was refilling the oil bottle. And I was at the register, and I’m watching, and I’m like, ma’am. And so she. She didn’t. She didn’t realize how fast it was coming out, and so there was a little bit of a mess. But the fact that she was engaging with a customer about the store and was so, like, into it, like, forgot that she was refilling. So that was. That’s probably the funniest.

Madison: All right, so do you guys have any special holiday plans or offers?

Dan: So we did have a Black Friday, and we’ll call it that that weekend. We are open late on Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Thursday, and Friday till 08:00, which is normal, a holiday schedule versus our 06:00 typical closing, and we’re open till 7:00 on Saturdays versus the 05:00. We have a very good loyalty program. If you refill five times, you get 20% off your next refill. So people who are getting into the process, that should be no problem to get to very quickly. And I’m sure we’ll have some. Some Christmas sales, you know, forthcoming. We’ll see what is exciting people and helping them get to that. A lot of gifts now. A lot of gifts.

Madison: Yeah. Side note, do you guys sell candles there, too?

Dan: We do, and it’s a local candle provider. She’s out of northeast Philadelphia. It’s a woman owned business, and she does a very, very good job in terms of making candles. People love the fragrances. We have expertise in kind of fragrance evaluation, at least Jamie and Rob do. And these candles smell just amazing. And if you bring. Once you burn the candle, you bring it back. You get a dollar back for bringing the candle jar, which gets recycled. She takes back and reuses them.

Madison: That’s perfect. That’s a perfect gift for the holidays coming up.

Dan: Yes. Who doesn’t like a candle?

Madison: Exactly. That’s why I asked. Yardley Refillery sounds like it’s doing amazing. So what is next?

Dan: So there’s an old adage in retail, do four seasons see what it looks like. We’ve been overwhelmed with how successful it was just out of the chute. So there are talks of expansion. Definitely. We just want to make sure we don’t get ahead of ourselves, make sure we. The biggest challenge is finding the vendors that meet our criteria. So there’s a lot of vendors out there that are trying to operate in the health and wellness space that also kind of would work with our refillery mission. But not just everyone gets in the door. So Rob is extremely diligent in vetting our vendors. You know, obviously, my wife Karen will tell me whether she likes something or not, and every vendor that’s in the store has been vetted versus many other vendors that were rejected in terms of bringing their product in the store. So we want to make sure that we continue on that mission. We want to make sure that the next door is in the perfect location that fits, you know, obviously, the economic realities, but also, you know, fits the community’s, you know, interest in having a store like this. But it’s going. We’re starting. We’re starting.

Madison: That’s awesome. And you guys just opened not too long ago, right?

Dan: Yeah. So this concept, I feel like, is ripe to explode. We’re not the smartest. We’re not the smartest people, so there’s. I’m sure somebody else, you know, is thinking about the possibility. So we want to make sure that we’re leading the charge.

Madison: Yeah, absolutely. I love the concept. I love everything about it.

Dan: Perfect. Thank you.

Madison: Of course.

Dan: Yeah. The last thing I just want to make sure emphasizes that progress versus perfection motto. I think all of us have underserved what we can do in terms of recycling. On the flip side, I think there weren’t a lot of alternatives to help you in that endeavor if you really look at it. And so hopefully, this store is that. Is that it allows you to fulfill what you already want to do and gives you great products in the process.

Mike: That’s great. Dan, I’m going to ask you one last question, because, you know, there’s this crazy perception that it’s hard to park in downtown Yardley

Dan: Oh, is that crazy?

Mike: It is crazy.

Dan: Listen, it’s a good. It is an issue. We do have parking. I don’t know if people know there’s that small alleyway next to the store that leads to a parking lot that’s dedicated just to our store. And Pretty Bird. But it fills up. You’re allowed to park anywhere back by the state store in that area in front of the state store. Listen, having a bad parking problem shows that people are really starting to kind of come into Yardley. I’m not gonna lie and say it’s not sometimes a little bit of an effort to find a spot, but they’re there. You just have to. You just have to, like, even across the street, you know, there are, there’s a parking spot behind Gianna Rose and the barber shop.

Mike: There’s often spaces on Afton Avenue, on Main street.

Dan: Yeah, yeah. But It takes a little bit of effort sometimes, but there’s adequate parking. I wouldn’t say there’s phenomenal parking. But I do want to tell you that all the local businesses in that area really, really are ran by awesome people. And they need your support. And don’t let something a little bit, like, oh, I have to walk a little bit. You know, it’s no longer a walk than a supermarket. A parking lot of a supermarket or.

Mike: Yeah, if you went to the mall, you’d have to park much further away. For some reason, people feel like if they can’t park right in front of it, oh, there’s no park. There’s always, like, there’s so many business, even if you take the walk, there are so many businesses down here that if you walk around, you might forget about or not see.

Dan: Right. And they all need that support. Like, I can’t tell you. You know, we’re inundated with major brands. We know that there’s a new supermarket coming in the town, but just make sure that you support your community and your community will support you.

Mike: Well said, Dan. Thank you.

Madison: So, Dan, we know your time is incredibly valuable, and we greatly appreciate you spending time with us. For those watching and listening and want to learn more about Yardley Refillery, where is the best place for them to learn more about Yardley Refillery?

Dan: So we have a very good website and all of our products, if you do make it into the store, have QR codes that link you to manufacturers. So the education part is crucial. We have a very, very good website that shows all of our products, but it’s intentional to bring you into the store. So we want you in the store. A good refillery has a lot of refillers in there, so it’s intentionally not going to be where you can order online and have a customer pick up in the parking lot and delivery. We want you to kind of enjoy the experience. So I know a lot of people are asking about the website. At this point, we probably won’t have an online store. I won’t rule it out. But this first phase, we really want you to kind of come in, enjoy the experience, learn about the products. Almost all the products have QR codes that tell you, that link them back to the manufacturer, the ingredients in the product, and just a little bit of story of the vendor themselves.

Madison: Yeah, I feel like seeing it in person, too. Like, even when we went there, I’m like, oh, wow, I didn’t even think you could refill that. You know, like, I feel like looking online, I mean, you read it once and you breeze right by it, but when it’s right in front of you, it definitely helps.

Dan: Correct. And I think we’re all. I don’t know. I’m at the point with technology where I don’t need much more. Like, you know, there’s something about coming and using your hands and using your. That it just doesn’t come in an Amazon box at your doorstep. You know, there’s something good about getting out of the house. That’s another thing people, this work at home. I think people love just to get out of the house and do something. I think we’ve turned the corner in terms of, oh, it’s great to work at home, and maybe it is and maybe it works for you, but you need to get out. Like everybody needs a little. You know, fresh air and interaction. I think it’s good for you.

Mike: Yep. Get out, come refill stuff, interact with neighbors. Just be careful how much olive oil you put in your container.

Dan: Exactly, exactly.

Mike: Yeah. Thanks, Dan. This has been great.

Madison: Thank you so much.

Dan: I really appreciate you guys reaching out to us. Thank you. The entire ownership group, Jamie, Rob, Karen, and I thank you very much for doing what you guys do.

Madison: Thank you so much, Dan.

Dan: I really appreciate it.

Conclusion

Madison: For more information on Yardley Wealth Management or Yardley Estate Planning, you could visit our website at yardleywealth.net and yardleyestate.net. You can also follow us on socials at Yardley Wealth Management. This podcast has been produced by Madison Demora and Mike Garry with technical and artistic help from Poe Productions.